Quote from Marc Sayer on August 20, 2020, 10:35 PM

As some of you know, I posted a version of this this on My Militia a week or so back. I've edited it a bit to get rid off the specifics that were relevant to that discussion. But the core is applicable here so I wanted to share it.

I am the first one to admit I am not a vet, did not serve in any police force, and do not know much about military equipment, tactics (guerrilla or otherwise) or capabilities. I have no axe to grind here with anybody.

And what I've seen in this thread is what will kill us off. If we can't be respectful and keep our shit together here, under no real stress at all, we are absolutely going to turn on one another in the field, and scatter into singles and small groups who will all be easily picked off. This is not news to anyone who studies human history. And it's why I tend to avoid working with groups of people.

Come on folks, we can disagree on the specifics and details, but let's keep it civil. Let's argue the facts objectively and unemotionally. Let's not emulate the very people we despise. One of the things we all complain about with them is that it's their way or they get nasty and turn on you. Not a good thing to emulate. And not a way to build any sort of functional esprit. Not even if you are right. The US has far too long pushed our focus on emotions and emotional arguments, and away from reason, facts and logic. It's gotten so bad that even groups like this tend to suffer the effects.

Feel free to disagree with me if you want. Just be polite about it and don't make it personal or engage in ad hominem attacks, please and thank you. And if someone here does attack you personally, or is rude, there's no gain in responding in kind. Smart folks will see what's going on. And if you simply argue rationally and dispassionately, they will see that, and respect it. OTOH if you stoop to personal attacks in response, they will see that too and they will loose respect for you. If you disagree with a person on a point, argue the point, not the person. It makes you a better person, and advances the state of our group's general knowledge. Pissing matches do nothing for any of us and damage us all. One last thing , if someone argues back rationally, and makes a valid point, embrace it and acknowledge their contribution. They'll benefit, you'll benefit, and the group will benefit.

I know this is hard, I'm not good at it when I get triggered and have been known to rip into folks.

Quote from cb85 on August 20, 2020, 10:43 PM

Quote from VictorM on August 20, 2020, 10:00 PM

Love the quality debate, but not the personal attacks. It seems to me that quality debate is impossible if the subject matter is pre-digested for us. We are not all super knowledgeable, nor super smart, but we are entitled to make up our own mind instead of the smart people doing it for us. If we let some trash through the gate, that is preferable to someone else sanitizing before we can see it. I am confident that we are able to detect lies and off-topic discussions well enough to not let this site become a garbage dump. In short, I don’t believe censorship is good for us in the long run.

People who have left antifa have stated that their intention in gathering and screaming obscenitys at ppl was not to change their minds but to so offend others living there so that the building manager would evict the ones being targeted.

this is not free speech and nether is allowing language that is offensive here.

Nor is It helpful to allow crazy conspiracy garbage on this site.

It would only serve to drive ppl away.

For that matter unmitigated personal attacks as those stated in above comments serve that same purpose.

 

i would like open discussion with out those thing listed above personal attacks, long debunked conspiracies, and foul language.

 

Quote from watchman87 on August 20, 2020, 10:45 PM

Quote from Marc Sayer on August 20, 2020, 10:15 PM

Quote from watchman87 on August 20, 2020, 7:36 PM

Marc, I appreciate the productive discord here.

1. Yes, the people ARE the militia. It's written right in the second amendment

Are 1 yr olds part of the militia? Are US citizens that are active members of the CCP, part of the militia? Should Comey be a part of the militia? Certainly none of the above would be allowed to be part of any militia I would be a part of. And as for the actual definition we work under today, I believe this is still the pertinent law...

10 U.S. Code § 246 - Militia: composition and classes

(a)The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

(b)The classes of the militia are— 

(1)the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and

(2)the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia. 

So by my reading no one under 17, no one over 45. That would keep me out. Obviously the 17 rule doesn't violate the law as they are not emancipated adults yet, but the 45 rule does. It is age discrimination. So we'd need to change that. And no women other than in the organized militia (Nat. Guard). Not sure on the legality of this. Is limiting them to the Guard sexual discrimination? I'll leave that to the lawyers. And only citizens or those who have declared their intent. Pretty sure that would be legal and applicable. Though I am sure the left would fight us on that one.

I am pretty sure that anyone convicted of espionage, treason, seditious conspiracy, and a few other crimes would also be ineligible. If not, well I'd have to be given a very very very good reason not to leave. And since there are guns involved, I'm betting most would want to preclude felons, at least for the most part.

Anyway specifics aside, it is clear that no matter how you slice that melon, not all people are militia.

As to the rest. We'd just have to agree to disagree. Yes I can see how banning false information could be morphed into the sort of censorship you are worried about. I think at that point we'd all have left anyway. Nothing you say and do can stop people from perverting something. Case in point, the 2nd amendment. It is clear and unequivocal. It says that the people's right to keep and bear arms (all arms of any sort that can be carried on your person - bear) is not to be messed with. And yet the courts and our lawmakers have been violating this amendment for decades. Longer than I have been alive in fact. If that clear, forceful statement did not stop the people's power to pervert, nothing we do will do any better. And allowing complete freedom to say anything will only assist their efforts at perversion. Limiting posts to provable facts will slow the process down, but as I say, nothing can stop it.

Allowing people to be rude and nasty, or to spread lies and falsehoods, will serve to chase away good people. They will simply find nicer, more honest places to be and people to be with.

At this point I'll just wish you well and hope that you can eventually see the validity of what I am trying to communicate.

Marc, I don’t think any reasonable person would suggest to think that toddlers would bearing on. From the perspective of the early continental union, that’s just nonsense and to think that anyone thinks that way well, that would be an insult to reason. Nor would I want my pregnant wife holding a line with my children at home alone. Women are best suited staying at home with the children, holing up with a rifle at the door step. As for older men beyond 45, I suppose the reasoning is that was considered “senior citizen” as life expectancy was much lower then and to expect a senior to keep up with twenty-somethings would be fatal for the survival of the line. Grandpa and grandma would be better suited helping around the homestead. Though I think this is mostly trivial bantering, the only point that matters is that if you’re looking to form a group of patriot minded civilians, the founding fathers called it “the militia.” See Federalist #29 by Hamilton to understand the intention.

Quote from HQ_Admin on August 20, 2020, 11:37 PM

Gentlemen, I've read about thirty seconds of these posts and that was enough. I don't need to go through the rest of them to know that some things need to be addressed immediately.

Let's start with censorship. This site will absolutely be censored, like any other site on the planet. If the Klan or neo-Nazis came to post their garbage, their posts would be deleted and they would be banned. They're free to express themselves, on a forum that they create and pay for...not here.

Alex Jones and Mike Adams have large websites with large followings, and are welcome to post whatever they see fit on those sites. People who want that kind of information presented in that way are welcome to go to those sites and consume as much of it as they wish; but both Jones and Adams, and a whole host of others just like them, hype and inflate the news using little more than speculation and hearsay, and they do it for some of the worst reasons--to get clicks, build their following, and make bank.

That's not what we're here for, and not what we promote. We deal in facts to the best of our ability. We're also not going to be doing a lot of "Q" postings, or "anon", or "the government was behind 9/11", or "little green men are living at Area 51". There are a lot of places on the internet to get that. This won't be one of them.

Next, this isn't a "militia" site. We aren't all about "anti-government" and all the rest. Anyone who made it this far should have figured that out by now. We're not interested in Johnny Rambo or Gomer Pyle. We're not here just to run around the woods with guns, and we're certainly not here to start a war with the government. Again, there are plenty of sites, plenty of organizations, who are all about that sort of thing. This isn't one of them.

Lastly, and most importantly--we're adults here.

Let me say that again--we are adults here. We're also opinionated, and dealing with strong subject matter which tends to get hackles up automatically. But we aren't on the playground, and we aren't on the schoolbus. We're going to have level heads, and behave like adults. I've disagreed plenty, with plenty of people. I've indicated on more than one occasion when I believe something that has been said is not worthy of serious discussion, and even indicated that I'd no longer participate in the conversation because I didn't feel the subject matter was worth my time. But I've done it in adult terms, because I'm a grown-ass man.

I expect nothing less from anyone participating in this group and on these forums.

Everyone here is going to say something stupid on occasion, including me. We're going to propose stupid things now and again, including me. And when we do, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that someone will call us out on it, even using the word "stupid". But it's the idea, or the thing we've said, that's stupid--not the person. I'll tolerate unflattering terms when applied to a thought or idea, but not when applied to the person offering it. There won't be people here who don't offer value, or valuable opinions, because they'll quickly realize this isn't where they belong--or they'll quickly find themselves on the wrong side of the ban hammer. And since everyone here is judged to be valuable/offer valuable opinions, personal attacks on those folks isn't going to work for me.

Long and short of it--keep it civil, respectful, and not personal. Choose your words carefully, as if you were talking to your best friend or your favorite grandmother. Be adults...because childish behavior is not becoming the people who would be part of this organization, and won't be tolerated by the people who lead it--least of all me.

Quote from HQ_Admin on August 20, 2020, 11:56 PM

Allow me to clarify regarding the Alex Jones' and Mike Adams' of the world; I have no problem with something being posted in a manner that suggests it's being offered up for digestion and critique. THAT is in keeping with our mission, our "way", and more importantly our intelligence-gathering operation. I'm not going to advocate for or support "censoring" that sort of post.

What I don't want, and won't support, is those sorts of posts being offered up as gospel (as we see far too often on other sites); or those sorts of "news" stories offered up as justification for carrying forward misguided opinion offered as fact. Most importantly, I don't want to see that sort of thing offered up to justify otherwise bad behavior; racism or other hate, for instance. That kind of activity plays right into the hands of the enemies of America, who are doing their best to get us fighting amongst ourselves so we'll destroy this nation.

I am not per se in favor of "censorship", and generally believe that as adults we are free to judge what we see for ourselves. But I wouldn't hold up something CNN promotes and claim it as proof of anything; CNN has had ample opportunity to prove themselves professional journalists who value the integrity that's supposed to accompany that profession, and they have failed miserably every time.

Alex Jones and Mike Adams have both had similar opportunities, and similar results. Their stuff, and the stuff on CNN, will be tolerated when it's presented in the right way--but we're not going to become a repository for it. That's not what we're here for.

Quote from cb85 on August 21, 2020, 12:08 AM

I agree.

attacking the idea is totaly ok. I know one thing that triggers me is getting called a leftist. Do that and I am automatically gonna label and see you as a jerk

identy politics is fine when used against the enemy cuz it's olny fighting fair, here though it needs to be avoided at all costs.

i reset my keyboard and it's finally working properly. Sigh. Made it miserable typing the last day or so.

Quote from watchman87 on August 21, 2020, 2:05 AM

Next, this isn't a "militia" site. We aren't all about "anti-government" and all the rest.

Oh, so militia means anti-government? I see. Did you even read any of my posts? And you think by calling it “civilian defense force” and shunning the big bad scary word “militia” will help you? The dumbing down and propagandizing (brainwashing) of Americans is strong with quite a few you. How about you release those shackles and be free men. Learn some truth. The founding fathers are rolling in their graves. So Ridiculous.

cb85: You ought to work on that “triggering” I don’t trust “emotionally unwell” people being around me with firearms. I’m quite serious. Grow up and be a man.

Quote from Muninn-1 on August 21, 2020, 2:34 AM

Ok, enough of this back and forth.
It's become apparent he wasn't here to contribute anything positive.
So I used my powers that I've been entrusted with and banned him.

If anyone has an issue with this, I am always open to criticism.

Please feel free to private message me.

Quote from HQ_Admin on August 21, 2020, 9:04 AM

I expected him to remove himself before long anyway, to be honest. Our approach isn't going to be for everybody; some people still want the "old school" militia, which has clearly failed but still appeals to that particular mindset (and that's fine--it just isn't us).

But response #28 would have triggered my ban as well. Good call.